Discussion:
Linux internet cafe
(too old to reply)
ext2box
2003-09-25 20:52:53 UTC
Permalink
I would like to here from people who have seen or used Linux in an internet
cafe. I'm intreasted to see how and were they have implemented it's use.
Any URL's to cafes using Linux would be a great start. I've seen very little
usable cafe management software out there for Linux. Purhaps there isn't a
need for it, I'm the only cafe owner on the planet that seems to think
Linux is the way to go???? or am I totally wrong ??? let me know. Are
internet cafe's a dead issue ? wi-fi access points replaced the need for a
place for people hang out ? hey what do you think ??

THX
Paul Lutus
2003-09-25 23:30:09 UTC
Permalink
<posted & mailed>
I would like to here [sic] from people who have seen or used Linux in an
internet [sic] cafe. I'm intreasted [sic] to see how and were [sic] they
have implemented
it's use.
1. Never multi-post. Choose one newsgroup. Make one post.

2. Never force an email reply from a Usenet forum, as you have donw.

3. Learn how to spell.
--
Paul Lutus
http://www.arachnoid.com
atec77>>
2003-09-25 23:49:01 UTC
Permalink
ah puhl . are you normally an analy retentive tossa with nothing to
contribute or do you work at it ?
Post by Paul Lutus
<posted & mailed>
I would like to here [sic] from people who have seen or used Linux in an
internet [sic] cafe. I'm intreasted [sic] to see how and were [sic] they
have implemented
it's use.
1. Never multi-post. Choose one newsgroup. Make one post.
2. Never force an email reply from a Usenet forum, as you have donw.
3. Learn how to spell.
--
Paul Lutus
http://www.arachnoid.com
--
Unix Rules... help your mates and introduce them.
Paul Lutus
2003-09-26 00:00:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by atec77>>
ah puhl . are you normally an analy retentive tossa with nothing to
contribute or do you work at it ?
We've all been wondering ... how exactly do you type while wearing a
straitjacket?
--
Paul Lutus
http://www.arachnoid.com
atec77>>
2003-09-25 23:51:58 UTC
Permalink
we use rdesktop logging onto a 2003 athlon dual running Microsoft
terminal server , locally Id like to use more nix and have a couple of
stand alones ( the terminals are 20 clients) but so many games don't run
on nix so little choice :_)
Happily all the other servers are nix based along with the firewall and
load balancing machine , we have multiple adsl links in via a nix box.
Post by ext2box
I would like to here from people who have seen or used Linux in an internet
cafe. I'm intreasted to see how and were they have implemented it's use.
Any URL's to cafes using Linux would be a great start. I've seen very little
usable cafe management software out there for Linux. Purhaps there isn't a
need for it, I'm the only cafe owner on the planet that seems to think
Linux is the way to go???? or am I totally wrong ??? let me know. Are
internet cafe's a dead issue ? wi-fi access points replaced the need for a
place for people hang out ? hey what do you think ??
THX
--
Unix Rules... help your mates and introduce them.
Sybren Stuvel
2003-09-29 12:59:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by ext2box
I would like to here from people who have seen or used Linux in an internet
cafe. I'm intreasted to see how and were they have implemented it's use.
I haven't used it as such, but I've been planning on building some
public computers for internet use. This is what I thought up:

- All personal settings are reset upon login
- Browsers are set up to use the Squid proxy running on the same
computer but as user 'squid'.
- On the same computer, iptables is installed to block all network
traffic except for the user 'squid'.
- Squid can be configured to accept network connections only from
certain users, at certain times, for certain sites etc. which will
allow you to have good control over the network access. I used this
to prevent people from downloading movies, stuff larger than two
megabyte, etc.
Post by ext2box
I've seen very little usable cafe management software out there for
Linux.
I think squid and iptables are a very nice combination. What features
do you want in "cafe management software"? Perhaps we can help you
find it. I think it's a very interesting subject, so perhaps I could
even write some software to fill in some gaps.

Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
ext2box
2003-09-30 16:24:35 UTC
Permalink
Sybren,

I've come up with a list of features that would be nice to have. (Wish list)

Feature Wish List:

1.Administration over the Internet via web browser.

2.MySQL database to store customers prepaid account balance.

3.Customers can reserve time slots for PC's via the web.

4.Billing rate will very based on the combination of hardware and the
type of software installed on the PC. Example: The Windows PC cost the
cafe more than the Linux PC so the savings of using Linux will be passed
on the the customer. This should encourage people to give Linux a try
for surfing the web.

5.Time left in account notification via pop up to warn customer to log
out or add funds before the prepaid account is depleted.

6.Customers will receive free PC time credits for Cafe food & drink
purchases. The credit earned on purchases will be stored in the MySQL user
database.

7.Billing rate will very based on time of day Example: we can offer a
happy hour at half price that will occur during certain time of day.

8.Control the amount of band width available based on type of user
account. Example: We can reward regular users with extra band width for
downloading.

9.Disk quotas based on type of account. Example: we can provide extra
disk space for storage.

10. Smart card reader for quick login.
11. The ability to add funds to users accounts from the Internet.
Example customers can add time to their user accounts from home or work
prior to showing up at the cafe. This will allow people to just walk
the door and start surfing with out waiting in line to purchase time.

12. Free intranet terminal located inside cafe for reserving
workstation time slots adding funds to accounts.

13. I would like users to be able to use the KDE desktop and applications
that do not pose a security risk to the Cafe or its users.
Post by Sybren Stuvel
Post by ext2box
I would like to here from people who have seen or used Linux in an
internet cafe. I'm intreasted to see how and were they have implemented
it's use.
I haven't used it as such, but I've been planning on building some
- All personal settings are reset upon login
- Browsers are set up to use the Squid proxy running on the same
computer but as user 'squid'.
- On the same computer, iptables is installed to block all network
traffic except for the user 'squid'.
- Squid can be configured to accept network connections only from
certain users, at certain times, for certain sites etc. which will
allow you to have good control over the network access. I used this
to prevent people from downloading movies, stuff larger than two
megabyte, etc.
Post by ext2box
I've seen very little usable cafe management software out there for
Linux.
I think squid and iptables are a very nice combination. What features
do you want in "cafe management software"? Perhaps we can help you
find it. I think it's a very interesting subject, so perhaps I could
even write some software to fill in some gaps.
Sybren
Sybren Stuvel
2003-10-01 08:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by ext2box
I've come up with a list of features that would be nice to have. (Wish list)
Please do NOT add a Reply-To header. You will only get spam this way,
and annoy Usenet posters. And please stop top-posting.
Post by ext2box
1.Administration over the Internet via web browser.
That's not a problem.
Post by ext2box
2.MySQL database to store customers prepaid account balance.
Sounds logical.
Post by ext2box
3.Customers can reserve time slots for PC's via the web.
Good idea.

The above can all be done with a bit of PHP and a MySQL database.
Post by ext2box
4.Billing rate will very based on the combination of hardware and
the type of software installed on the PC.
You'd have to make a database of all machines and their rates, and use
the MAC address for instance to identify a machine. I think you can
use squid to use an external program for various stuff, and implement
it in there. You can also write a separate daemon that uses iptables
to block the network traffic from that machine once it's credit runs
out.
Post by ext2box
5.Time left in account notification via pop up to warn customer to
log out or add funds before the prepaid account is depleted.
SMB message popups would be best suited for this I guess.
Post by ext2box
6.Customers will receive free PC time credits for Cafe food & drink
purchases. The credit earned on purchases will be stored in the
MySQL user database.
Nice idea! It would be hard to automate that, though, unless you're
using a PC-based counter.
Post by ext2box
7.Billing rate will very based on time of day Example: we can offer
a happy hour at half price that will occur during certain time of
day.
That shouldn't be a problem.
Post by ext2box
8.Control the amount of band width available based on type of user
account. Example: We can reward regular users with extra band width
for downloading.
With QOS that shouldn't be a problem at all.
Post by ext2box
9.Disk quotas based on type of account. Example: we can provide
extra disk space for storage.
The UNIX 'quota' command should be sufficient for that.
Post by ext2box
10. Smart card reader for quick login.
I never used that...
Post by ext2box
11. The ability to add funds to users accounts from the Internet.
Then you'd have to accept creditcard payments over the 'net. I've done
that, and it's easier than you think :)
Post by ext2box
12. Free intranet terminal located inside cafe for reserving
workstation time slots adding funds to accounts.
That would be a machine that just has access to the website you talk
about in 11.
Post by ext2box
13. I would like users to be able to use the KDE desktop and
applications that do not pose a security risk to the Cafe or its
users.
No problem.

Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Menno Duursma
2003-10-01 08:40:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sybren Stuvel
Post by ext2box
5.Time left in account notification via pop up to warn customer to
log out or add funds before the prepaid account is depleted.
SMB message popups would be best suited for this I guess.
How about that `xmessage' though.
Maybe google for `gmessage' or `kmessage' for a nice "fit" in your DE.
--
-Menno.
ext2box
2003-10-01 17:55:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sybren Stuvel
Post by ext2box
I've come up with a list of features that would be nice to have. (Wish list)
Please do NOT add a Reply-To header. You will only get spam this way,
and annoy Usenet posters. And please stop top-posting.
Post by ext2box
1.Administration over the Internet via web browser.
That's not a problem.
Post by ext2box
2.MySQL database to store customers prepaid account balance.
Sounds logical.
Post by ext2box
3.Customers can reserve time slots for PC's via the web.
Good idea.
The above can all be done with a bit of PHP and a MySQL database.
Post by ext2box
4.Billing rate will very based on the combination of hardware and
the type of software installed on the PC.
You'd have to make a database of all machines and their rates, and use
the MAC address for instance to identify a machine. I think you can
use squid to use an external program for various stuff, and implement
it in there. You can also write a separate daemon that uses iptables
to block the network traffic from that machine once it's credit runs
out.
This idea of a blocking network traffic from the client pc sounds very
interesting, but how would you force the pc to log off to KDM ? Have you
had any experience with writing the code for a custom daemon ?
Post by Sybren Stuvel
Post by ext2box
5.Time left in account notification via pop up to warn customer to
log out or add funds before the prepaid account is depleted.
SMB message popups would be best suited for this I guess.
Post by ext2box
6.Customers will receive free PC time credits for Cafe food & drink
purchases. The credit earned on purchases will be stored in the
MySQL user database.
Nice idea! It would be hard to automate that, though, unless you're
using a PC-based counter.
If we were to use a Linux based POS could it act as the counter to update
the MySQL users database with earned credits based on purchases made ?
Post by Sybren Stuvel
Post by ext2box
7.Billing rate will very based on time of day Example: we can offer
a happy hour at half price that will occur during certain time of
day.
That shouldn't be a problem.
Post by ext2box
8.Control the amount of band width available based on type of user
account. Example: We can reward regular users with extra band width
for downloading.
With QOS that shouldn't be a problem at all.
Post by ext2box
9.Disk quotas based on type of account. Example: we can provide
extra disk space for storage.
The UNIX 'quota' command should be sufficient for that.
Post by ext2box
10. Smart card reader for quick login.
I never used that...
I'm not convinced that we will need a smart card reader, but I'm gathering
info on it.
Post by Sybren Stuvel
Post by ext2box
11. The ability to add funds to users accounts from the Internet.
Then you'd have to accept creditcard payments over the 'net. I've done
that, and it's easier than you think :)
Post by ext2box
12. Free intranet terminal located inside cafe for reserving
workstation time slots adding funds to accounts.
That would be a machine that just has access to the website you talk
about in 11.
Post by ext2box
13. I would like users to be able to use the KDE desktop and
applications that do not pose a security risk to the Cafe or its
users.
No problem.
Sybren
Sybren Stuvel
2003-10-01 18:50:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by ext2box
This idea of a blocking network traffic from the client pc sounds
very interesting, but how would you force the pc to log off to KDM ?
Just kill X.
Post by ext2box
Have you had any experience with writing the code for a custom
daemon ?
Sure, plenty of them. You can also use ssh to let the daemon log in as
some user on the box and kill X using sudo or something similar.
Post by ext2box
If we were to use a Linux based POS could it act as the counter to
update the MySQL users database with earned credits based on
purchases made ?
What is a POS?

Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
ext2box
2003-10-01 20:09:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sybren Stuvel
Post by ext2box
This idea of a blocking network traffic from the client pc sounds
very interesting, but how would you force the pc to log off to KDM ?
Just kill X.
Post by ext2box
Have you had any experience with writing the code for a custom
daemon ?
Sure, plenty of them. You can also use ssh to let the daemon log in as
some user on the box and kill X using sudo or something similar.
Post by ext2box
If we were to use a Linux based POS could it act as the counter to
update the MySQL users database with earned credits based on
purchases made ?
What is a POS?
Sybren
POS = (Point-of-Sale) "cash register" software that runs on Linux. I've seen
many companies offering Linux based POS solutions. Example:

http://www.wincor-nixdorf.com/internet/us/NewsEvents/press/030224HannafordWin/HannafordWin,templateId=BusinessCategoryPressDetail.jsp.html
Sybren Stuvel
2003-10-01 20:26:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by ext2box
POS = (Point-of-Sale) "cash register" software that runs on Linux.
I've seen many companies offering Linux based POS solutions.
It looks nice! I'm not sure that it's easily modifiable, though.

Oh, next time you want to post a URL, take a look at
http://tinyurl.com/. For example: your URL would be shortened to
http://tinyurl.com/pd2w Nice eh?

Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
ext2box
2003-10-01 21:44:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sybren Stuvel
Post by ext2box
POS = (Point-of-Sale) "cash register" software that runs on Linux.
I've seen many companies offering Linux based POS solutions.
It looks nice! I'm not sure that it's easily modifiable, though.
Oh, next time you want to post a URL, take a look at
http://tinyurl.com/. For example: your URL would be shortened to
http://tinyurl.com/pd2w Nice eh?
Sybren
I like it....Thanks!
Brian Schwarz
2003-10-06 20:42:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sybren Stuvel
Post by ext2box
If we were to use a Linux based POS could it act as the counter to
update the MySQL users database with earned credits based on
purchases made ?
What is a POS?
Point Of Sale - jargon for fancy cash registers.

Alternatively, POS = Piece of S**t, although I think the first option fits
the context better ;-)
--
-----------------------------
The opinions expressed here are my own
and do not reflect those of my
employers - past, present, or future.
Harry Phillips
2003-09-30 08:40:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sybren Stuvel
- All personal settings are reset upon login
A script that deletes everything in the home dir and then copies a
generic settings could be used here.
Post by Sybren Stuvel
- Browsers are set up to use the Squid proxy running on the same
computer but as user 'squid'.
Huh? Why not use a transparent proxy using iptables. That way they can
change the broswer settings all they want but it WILL still go through
the proxy.
Post by Sybren Stuvel
- Squid can be configured to accept network connections only from
certain users, at certain times, for certain sites etc. which will
allow you to have good control over the network access. I used this
to prevent people from downloading movies, stuff larger than two
megabyte, etc.
How did you do that? Can you post your squid config file?
Post by Sybren Stuvel
Post by ext2box
I've seen very little usable cafe management software out there for
Linux.
I think squid and iptables are a very nice combination. What features
do you want in "cafe management software"? Perhaps we can help you
find it. I think it's a very interesting subject, so perhaps I could
even write some software to fill in some gaps.
A good thing about 'Internet Cafes' they don't expect it to be the same
as their home PC. They expect it to be different and they expect it to
be locked down.

You can use standard Linux to lock things down quite well.
--
Regards,
Harry Phillips
--- Failure is not an option,
it comes bundled with your Microsoft product.
Sybren Stuvel
2003-10-01 08:41:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry Phillips
Huh? Why not use a transparent proxy using iptables. That way they
can change the broswer settings all they want but it WILL still go
through the proxy.
Also possible.
Post by Harry Phillips
Post by Sybren Stuvel
- Squid can be configured to accept network connections only from
certain users, at certain times, for certain sites etc. which will
allow you to have good control over the network access. I used this
to prevent people from downloading movies, stuff larger than two
megabyte, etc.
How did you do that? Can you post your squid config file?
It's all managed in the ACL part of the config file. You can also set
a maximum size etc. I can't post the config file, since the public
internet machines were never built and I threw the file away.

Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Joachim Heller
2003-10-01 17:05:59 UTC
Permalink
On 01 Oct 2003 08:41:54 GMT, Sybren Stuvel
You can also set a maximum size etc.
Uuups ... you are shure that this could be done???
This would be a good solution to prevent users from downloading big
files.
As far as I remember you could only set the maximum size of files
which are *cached* by squid. But I'm not that squid guru :)

ciao Joachim
Sybren Stuvel
2003-10-01 18:53:14 UTC
Permalink
Uuups ... you are shure that this could be done??? This would be a
good solution to prevent users from downloading big files. As far
as I remember you could only set the maximum size of files which are
*cached* by squid. But I'm not that squid guru :)
Yep, very sure. Take a look at the request_body_max_size and
reply_body_max_size options in squid.conf.

Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Joachim Heller
2003-10-01 19:01:55 UTC
Permalink
On 01 Oct 2003 18:53:14 GMT, Sybren Stuvel
Post by Sybren Stuvel
Yep, very sure. Take a look at the request_body_max_size and
reply_body_max_size options in squid.conf.
Thanks :)
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