SystemRescueDisc and wireless USB mouse/keyboard

[David]

I've just downloaded the latest System Rescue Disc 6.0.3.
It is a while since I've used one.

I tested it on a system with a Logitech Unifying Receiver supporting
keyboard and mouse.

The system booted, but at the command prompt there was no keyboard input.

I do have a slightly out of date Mint system which does support Logitech.

Is this a known issue for most versions of Linux?
I can see reports of this problem around 2009 and 2013 but nothing recent.

I am downloading a version of Knoppix to see if that behaves any
differently.

I just want a distribution to boot up on old hardware (before deciding
keep/scrap) to check out the hardware and performance.

Cheers




Dave R

[Javier]

Post by David
I've just downloaded the latest System Rescue Disc 6.0.3.
It is a while since I've used one.
I tested it on a system with a Logitech Unifying Receiver supporting
keyboard and mouse.
The system booted, but at the command prompt there was no keyboard input.
I do have a slightly out of date Mint system which does support Logitech.
Is this a known issue for most versions of Linux?
I can see reports of this problem around 2009 and 2013 but nothing recent.
I am downloading a version of Knoppix to see if that behaves any
differently.
I just want a distribution to boot up on old hardware (before deciding
keep/scrap) to check out the hardware and performance.

SystemRescueCD quit Gentoo and moved to ArchLinux recently.
The last SystemRescueCD based on Gentoo (and with both 32 bit and
64bit support) is

https://osdn.net/projects/systemrescuecd/storage/releases/5.3.2/systemrescuecd-x86-5.3.2.iso

Try with that version. Arch Linux is nice, I use it myself, but
it always comes with some bug on it.

[Mike Easter]

Post by David
Logitech Unifying Receiver supporting
keyboard and mouse.

That is a logitech usb device which supports compatible kb-mouse,
presumably by some tech similar to 2.4 GHz bluetooth, but proprietary.

You should find out what your system knows about the USB device.

You can use lsusb or inxi --usb to see what is recognized.

Logitech claims the device 'requires' Win or Mac OS for its software.

// Is the Unifying software compatible with our Linux systems? Unifying
software is not compatible with Linux. However, you may use a single
compatible product on a Linux system, or, you can pair on a system with
an OS that supports the Unifying software, and then plug the receiver
into a Linux system. //
https://www.logitech.com/images/pdf/roem/Unifying_QA_IT_business_managers_7709.pdf

Here's a helpful archwiki article about the pairing process if that is
the problem:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Logitech_Unifying_Receiver

There is particularly a 'known problems' section that may be useful.

[TJ]

Post by Mike Easter

  Logitech Unifying Receiver supporting
keyboard and mouse.

That is a logitech usb device which supports compatible kb-mouse,
presumably by some tech similar to 2.4 GHz bluetooth, but proprietary.
You should find out what your system knows about the USB device.
You can use lsusb or inxi --usb to see what is recognized.
Logitech claims the device 'requires' Win or Mac OS for its software.
// Is the Unifying software compatible with our Linux systems? Unifying
software is not compatible with Linux.  However, you may use a single
compatible product on a Linux system, or, you can pair on a system with
an OS that supports the Unifying software, and then plug the receiver
into a Linux system. //
https://www.logitech.com/images/pdf/roem/Unifying_QA_IT_business_managers_7709.pdf
Here's a helpful archwiki article about the pairing process if that is
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Logitech_Unifying_Receiver
There is particularly a 'known problems' section that may be useful.

Not "officially" sanctioned by Logitech, but I use the open-source
Solaar from the Mageia repositories to manage my Logitech unifying
receivers and devices. Works great for pairing and unpairing, reports
battery status.

https://github.com/pwr-Solaar/Solaar

I've even had mice and/or keyboards go bad over the years, and purchased
replacements that I then paired with a single receiver. Once paired,
I've had zero problems with the keyboards/mice with installed Mageia, or
with Mageia Live media. They "just work" with it.

TJ

[David W. Hodgins]

Post by TJ
Not "officially" sanctioned by Logitech, but I use the open-source
Solaar from the Mageia repositories to manage my Logitech unifying
receivers and devices. Works great for pairing and unpairing, reports
battery status.

Same here. From the point of view of kernel modules, for the Logitech wireless
receiver with the mouse and keyboard, the following modules must be available
grep -e hid -e usb /proc/modules |sort
hid 143360 6 hid_logitech_hidpp,hid_logitech_dj,hid_generic,usbhid, Live 0xffffffffc058a000
hid_generic 16384 0 - Live 0xffffffffc02de000
hid_logitech_dj 28672 0 - Live 0xffffffffc0306000
hid_logitech_hidpp 45056 0 - Live 0xffffffffc0544000
usb_common 16384 4 ohci_hcd,xhci_hcd,ehci_hcd,usbcore, Live 0xffffffffc01c9000
usbcore 303104 8 usbhid,ohci_pci,ehci_pci,ohci_hcd,xhci_pci,xhci_hcd,ehci_hcd, Live 0xffffffffc01ce000
usbhid 65536 1 hid_logitech_dj, Live 0xffffffffc0527000

The modules are loaded by the udev rule that is part of the solaar package ...
# rpm -q -f /usr/lib/udev/rules.d/42-logitech-unify-permissions.rules
solaar-0.9.2-12.git20190130.1.mga7

Regards, Dave Hodgins

[David]

Post by David
I've just downloaded the latest System Rescue Disc 6.0.3.
It is a while since I've used one.
I tested it on a system with a Logitech Unifying Receiver supporting
keyboard and mouse.
The system booted, but at the command prompt there was no keyboard input.
I do have a slightly out of date Mint system which does support Logitech.
Is this a known issue for most versions of Linux?
I can see reports of this problem around 2009 and 2013 but nothing recent.
I am downloading a version of Knoppix to see if that behaves any
differently.
I just want a distribution to boot up on old hardware (before deciding
keep/scrap) to check out the hardware and performance.

Thanks to the prompt responders!

Now here's a thing.
I booted Knoppix (years since I used to use a Knoppix CD) and the boot
prompt accepted keyboard input.
However once booted into the graphic environment there was no keyboard or
mouse.
Just for the hell of it I unplugged the receiver and moved it around.
Turns out that it works fine with USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 but not with USB 2.0.

This is very strange, but a short term solution perhaps.

Of course, the older hardware won't have USB 3.0/3.1 but I can probably
dig out a wired keyboard and mouse.

Obviously I would normally have a keyboard/mouse on USB 2 because I just
can't type any faster.

I haven't checked back with the System Rescue Disc but I am guessing that
it may have a similar result.

Cheers



Dave R

[Mike Easter]

Post by David
Turns out that it works fine with USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 but not with USB 2.0.

I still recommend that a part of your troubleshooting experimentation
should include lsusb or inxi --usb, including on the various ports as above.

It is worthwhile to id whether there is trouble at the usb recognition
level or if the trouble is in the pairing of the proprietary bluetooth.

Since you don't have the Win/Mac-ware available from logitech, you don't
have that software troubleshooting (and other features) available to you.

[Paul]

Post by David

Post by David
I've just downloaded the latest System Rescue Disc 6.0.3.
It is a while since I've used one.
I tested it on a system with a Logitech Unifying Receiver supporting
keyboard and mouse.
The system booted, but at the command prompt there was no keyboard input.
I do have a slightly out of date Mint system which does support Logitech.
Is this a known issue for most versions of Linux?
I can see reports of this problem around 2009 and 2013 but nothing recent.
I am downloading a version of Knoppix to see if that behaves any
differently.
I just want a distribution to boot up on old hardware (before deciding
keep/scrap) to check out the hardware and performance.

Thanks to the prompt responders!
Now here's a thing.
I booted Knoppix (years since I used to use a Knoppix CD) and the boot
prompt accepted keyboard input.
However once booted into the graphic environment there was no keyboard or
mouse.
Just for the hell of it I unplugged the receiver and moved it around.
Turns out that it works fine with USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 but not with USB 2.0.
This is very strange, but a short term solution perhaps.
Of course, the older hardware won't have USB 3.0/3.1 but I can probably
dig out a wired keyboard and mouse.
Obviously I would normally have a keyboard/mouse on USB 2 because I just
can't type any faster.
I haven't checked back with the System Rescue Disc but I am guessing that
it may have a similar result.
Cheers
Dave R

USB3 normally has 9 signals total in the connector:

V+, D+, D-, GND (a set of USB2 pins)
TX+,TX-,GND,RX+,RX- (a set of USB3 pint)

When you plug a USB2 device into a USB3 port, the
first four electrical signals touch, and the last five
do not.

However, how the behavior can differ, is those nine
pins are governed by an XHCI driver. Each USB standard
has a name for its stuff. And so XHCI would own all
nine pins, and if negotiation at T=0 results in USB2
behavior, the XHCI driver is still controlling it.

You might open a Terminal and try

dmesg | less

and review what it says about USB detections.

If you plug a USB3 device into a USB3 jack, then all
nine wires touch. But the driver is not allowed to run
all nine pins "in parallel". Either one standard runs
or the other - you get either 480Mbit/sec USB2 operation
or 5000Mbit/sec USB3 operation, but you don't get
5480Mbit/sec.

Typical datarates for protocols like that keyboard/mouse
application, would likely top out at 3Mbit/sec, which
USB2 handles with ease.

Paul

[J.O. Aho]

Post by David
I've just downloaded the latest System Rescue Disc 6.0.3.
It is a while since I've used one.
I tested it on a system with a Logitech Unifying Receiver supporting
keyboard and mouse.

Support for the keyboard/mouse is supplied with hid_logitech_dj

Post by David
The system booted, but at the command prompt there was no keyboard input.

I guess the module hasn't been loaded, a "modprobe hid_logitech_dj"
would give you either support for your keyboard/mouse or an error
message that there ain't a such driver.

Post by David
I do have a slightly out of date Mint system which does support Logitech.

Many times distribution installation media has better hardware support
than say SRD, and as far as I know they do support to boot into rescue
mode too, so I never really bothered to use SRD or similar.

Post by David
Is this a known issue for most versions of Linux?

I would say it's only an issue in distributions where they tend to try
to have a limited hardware support.

Post by David
I can see reports of this problem around 2009 and 2013 but nothing recent.

There are two types of Unified Receivers, the old one one which seems to
have worked well with the default USB keyboard and the newer one which
uses the new hid_logitech_dj module. For me there never been an issue
with logitech keyboards/mouses, it's worked for me straight out of the
box and then I have used quite odd distributions.

Post by David
I am downloading a version of Knoppix to see if that behaves any
differently.

Can't promise, but I think it will work better.

[Javier]

Post by J.O. Aho
Many times distribution installation media has better hardware support
than say SRD, and as far as I know they do support to boot into rescue
mode too, so I never really bothered to use SRD or similar.

Me neither, I never bothered with System Rescue CD, until the distros
decided dropping the ssh server from their install media.

Debian does not come anymore with an ssh server in the install media.
Arch Linux dropped it very recently. Arch install media for August
still had it, but now in December it's not there anymore. No ssh
server or client on it. So now I have to install in a chroot from the
System Rescue CD.

I want to do the install/rescue in an xterm where I can copy and paste
text from my notes, not in the barebones environment of the install media.

[J.O. Aho]

Post by Javier

Post by J.O. Aho
Many times distribution installation media has better hardware support
than say SRD, and as far as I know they do support to boot into rescue
mode too, so I never really bothered to use SRD or similar.

Me neither, I never bothered with System Rescue CD, until the distros
decided dropping the ssh server from their install media.
Debian does not come anymore with an ssh server in the install media.
Arch Linux dropped it very recently. Arch install media for August
still had it, but now in December it's not there anymore. No ssh
server or client on it.

You maybe could take a look at Funtoo or Gentoo install media, think
they still come with ssh.

Post by Javier
I want to do the install/rescue in an xterm where I can copy and paste
text from my notes, not in the barebones environment of the install media.

Ah, GUI, ms-windows server comes with ssh ;)

I think the Redcore did have ssh or in worst case install it, sure you
would need to do that each time you boot.

[Jasen Betts]

Post by Javier

Post by J.O. Aho
Many times distribution installation media has better hardware support
than say SRD, and as far as I know they do support to boot into rescue
mode too, so I never really bothered to use SRD or similar.

Me neither, I never bothered with System Rescue CD, until the distros
decided dropping the ssh server from their install media.
Debian does not come anymore with an ssh server in the install media.

That feature is available on the buster media, has it been dropped
from sid?

Post by Javier
Arch Linux dropped it very recently. Arch install media for August
still had it, but now in December it's not there anymore. No ssh
server or client on it. So now I have to install in a chroot from the
System Rescue CD.
I want to do the install/rescue in an xterm where I can copy and paste
text from my notes, not in the barebones environment of the install media.

Debian still has ssh server.

Advanced options
Expert install
Load installer components from CD
network-console

You may also want "rescue mode" in the last step.

After configuring the network you will be able to launch the ssh server

[Javier]

Post by Jasen Betts

Post by Javier
Debian does not come anymore with an ssh server in the install media.

That feature is available on the buster media, has it been dropped
from sid?

I was trying with the Netinst image for Buster.

I tried to reproduce the steps to make a headless image
(i.e., booting with the ssh server activated) as described in

https://github.com/philpagel/debian-headless
http://techbotch.org/blog/debian-headless-installation/index.html

The author says this works for Debian 9.5 (Stretch)

https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-9.5.0-amd64-netinst.iso

I tried to do a similar thing for Debian 10 (Buster), but I couldn't.

https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/debian-10.1.0-i386-netinst.iso

In any case, I just gave up. With SystemRescueCD it's trivial to
remaster the iso and make a headless image. I just need to
modify ONE line in isolinux.cfg

Now I just install Linux (whatever distro) from a chroot in
SystemRescueCD. Much less hassle and I don't need to
download/remaster/write the iso every time.

[Chris Elvidge]

Post by J.O. Aho

Post by David
I've just downloaded the latest System Rescue Disc 6.0.3.
It is a while since I've used one.
I tested it on a system with a Logitech Unifying Receiver supporting
keyboard and mouse.

Support for the keyboard/mouse is supplied with hid_logitech_dj

Post by David
The system booted, but at the command prompt there was no keyboard input.

I guess the module hasn't been loaded, a "modprobe hid_logitech_dj"
would give you either support for your keyboard/mouse or an error
message that there ain't a such driver.

No keyboard detected. Press F1 to continue.

Try adding a wired keyboard. At least then you can probe the problem.
Or can you get in with ssh?

Post by J.O. Aho

Post by David
I do have a slightly out of date Mint system which does support Logitech.

Many times distribution installation media has better hardware support
than say SRD, and as far as I know they do support to boot into rescue
mode too, so I never really bothered to use SRD or similar.

Post by David
Is this a known issue for most versions of Linux?

I would say it's only an issue in distributions where they tend to try
to have a limited hardware support.

Post by David
I can see reports of this problem around 2009 and 2013 but nothing recent.

There are two types of Unified Receivers, the old one one which seems to
have worked well with the default USB keyboard and the newer one which
uses the new hid_logitech_dj module. For me there never been an issue
with logitech keyboards/mouses, it's worked for me straight out of the
box and then I have used quite odd distributions.

Post by David
I am downloading a version of Knoppix to see if that behaves any
differently.

Can't promise, but I think it will work better.

[Javier]

Post by Chris Elvidge
Try adding a wired keyboard. At least then you can probe the problem.
Or can you get in with ssh?

He can get in with ssh in the rescue CD but he needs to remaster the iso.
For security no bootable CD/USB will enable sshd by default.

He needs to modify isolinux/isolinux.cfg

cfg_file=${iso_dir}/isolinux/isolinux.cfg
perl -i -pe 's/^TIMEOUT [0-9]*$/TIMEOUT 100/' ${cfg_file}
perl -i -pe 's/^APPEND rescue64 scandelay=1 -- rescue32 scandelay=1$/'\
'APPEND rescue64 scandelay=1 setkmap=us rootpass=root dosshd'\
' -- '\
'rescue32 scandelay=1 setkmap=us rootpass=root dosshd'\
'/' ${cfg_file}

This works for SRCD based on Gentoo. Now with the switch to Arch in
SRCD it may different.

https://osdn.net/projects/systemrescuecd/storage/releases/5.3.2/systemrescuecd-x86-5.3.2.iso

[Java Jive]

Post by David
I've just downloaded the latest System Rescue Disc 6.0.3.
It is a while since I've used one.
I tested it on a system with a Logitech Unifying Receiver supporting
keyboard and mouse.
The system booted, but at the command prompt there was no keyboard input.
I do have a slightly out of date Mint system which does support Logitech.
Is this a known issue for most versions of Linux?
I can see reports of this problem around 2009 and 2013 but nothing recent.
I am downloading a version of Knoppix to see if that behaves any
differently.
I just want a distribution to boot up on old hardware (before deciding
keep/scrap) to check out the hardware and performance.

Go into the PC's BIOS settings and see if there is a setting to let the
BIOS support USB keyboard and mouse, and if there is, enable it.

[Aragorn]

Post by Java Jive

Post by David
I've just downloaded the latest System Rescue Disc 6.0.3.
It is a while since I've used one.
I tested it on a system with a Logitech Unifying Receiver supporting
keyboard and mouse.
The system booted, but at the command prompt there was no keyboard input.
I do have a slightly out of date Mint system which does support Logitech.
Is this a known issue for most versions of Linux?
I can see reports of this problem around 2009 and 2013 but nothing recent.
I am downloading a version of Knoppix to see if that behaves any
differently.
I just want a distribution to boot up on old hardware (before
deciding keep/scrap) to check out the hardware and performance.

Go into the PC's BIOS settings and see if there is a setting to let
the BIOS support USB keyboard and mouse, and if there is, enable it.

It'll be commonly labeled as "Legacy USB support".;)