Linux Distro With 2D Desktop

[Jeff Gaines]

I am trying (again) to get myself going with Linux on a spare PC (Xeon
CPU) and have made good progress so far with Ubuntu-MATE.

I discovered yesterday that no matter how hard you try a Blu Ray disc
won't play in a standard DVD player, that's an hour I won't get back. Once
I had realised what I was doing wrong I got it working fine even using the
terminal to install some libraries.

I tried to install HandBrake but the web site was pretty sniffy and it
seems I need first to install flatpak (?) to install HandBrake, new to me
but I will give it a try.

What has me stumped at the moment is I want to use the Linux machine from
a Windows laptop using RDP on the laptop and xrdp on the Linux box. I made
quite good progress to the extent I could connect (once I had realised I
had to log off the Linux box first) but there was no access to the menu.
It seems xrdp doesn't like 3D desktops. I have been going in circles this
morning installing xfce4 (which I think is 2D) but RDP just keeps dropping
out.

I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if there is a
distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard since it might be easier
to start from fresh?

Good learning process, haven't used a terminal since DOS 6.2 :-)

Many thanks.

[Joerg Walther]

Post by Jeff Gaines
I tried to install HandBrake but the web site was pretty sniffy and it
seems I need first to install flatpak (?) to install HandBrake, new to me
but I will give it a try.

Handbrake is in the normal Ubuntu repository:

***@jazz:~$ apt search handbrake
Sortierung… Fertig
Volltextsuche… Fertig
handbrake/jammy,now 1.5.1+ds1-1build1 amd64 [installiert]
versatile DVD ripper and video transcoder (GTK+ GUI)

handbrake-cli/jammy 1.5.1+ds1-1build1 amd64
versatile DVD ripper and video transcoder (command line)

So just do
sudo apt install handbrake

-jw-

[MarioCCCP]

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am trying (again) to get myself going with Linux on a
spare PC (Xeon CPU) and have made good progress so far with
Ubuntu-MATE.
I discovered yesterday that no matter how hard you try a Blu
Ray disc won't play in a standard DVD player,

surprising !!
I mean : the wavelength is likely wrong, the spatial
resolution too, and maybe the rotation speed wrong also.

My DVD masterizer uses red laser, maybe also green on double
capacity (I am no longer sure of this, it's ages I have
given up in DVD backups), but for sure does not have a blue
laser (whose shorter wavelength allows it to read tinier
pits or spots).

Downgradin is not granted to work, but upgrading is granted
to fail in this case, due to physical limitations.

Post by Jeff Gaines
that's an hour
I won't get back. Once I had realised what I was doing wrong
I got it working fine even using the terminal to install
some libraries.
I tried to install HandBrake but the web site was pretty
sniffy and it seems I need first to install flatpak (?) to
install HandBrake, new to me but I will give it a try.
What has me stumped at the moment is I want to use the Linux
machine from a Windows laptop using RDP on the laptop and
xrdp on the Linux box. I made quite good progress to the
extent I could connect (once I had realised I had to log off
the Linux box first) but there was no access to the menu. It
seems xrdp doesn't like 3D desktops. I have been going in
circles this morning installing xfce4 (which I think is 2D)
but RDP just keeps dropping out.
I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if
there is a distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard
since it might be easier to start from fresh?
Good learning process, haven't used a terminal since DOS 6.2
:-)
Many thanks.

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am trying (again) to get myself going with Linux on a spare PC (Xeon
CPU) and have made good progress so far with Ubuntu-MATE.
I discovered yesterday that no matter how hard you try a Blu Ray disc
won't play in a standard DVD player, that's an hour I won't get back.
Once I had realised what I was doing wrong I got it working fine even
using the terminal to install some libraries.

That's an hour gained of knowledge :-)

It is called learning.

Post by Jeff Gaines
I tried to install HandBrake but the web site was pretty sniffy and it
seems I need first to install flatpak (?) to install HandBrake, new to
me but I will give it a try.
What has me stumped at the moment is I want to use the Linux machine
from a Windows laptop using RDP on the laptop and xrdp on the Linux box.
I made quite good progress to the extent I could connect (once I had
realised I had to log off the Linux box first) but there was no access
to the menu. It seems xrdp doesn't like 3D desktops. I have been going
in circles this morning installing xfce4 (which I think is 2D) but RDP
just keeps dropping out.

Are you using Xayland? That I think interferes. You need classical X.

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if there is a
distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard since it might be easier
to start from fresh?
Good learning process, haven't used a terminal since DOS 6.2 :-)
Many thanks.

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if there is a
distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard since it might be easier
to start from fresh?

Thanks for all the replies :-)

I went for Linux Mint xfce, went on easily and installed what I needed
from the graphical interface. I have used RDP to connect and that works
fines as well so looking good.
I will look for a news reader, Thunderbird used to be excellent but its
main emphasis seems to be email nowadays.
Installing HandBrake at the moment...

[Joerg Walther]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if there is a
distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard since it might be easier
to start from fresh?

I will look for a news reader, Thunderbird used to be excellent but its
main emphasis seems to be email nowadays.

I still use Agent running in Wine, nothing compares to it, imho. Pan
looks a bit similar but in the end comes out quite differently, some
people also use Claws Mail (which also does news).

-jw-

[candycanearter07]

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am trying (again) to get myself going with Linux on a spare PC (Xeon
CPU) and have made good progress so far with Ubuntu-MATE.
I discovered yesterday that no matter how hard you try a Blu Ray disc
won't play in a standard DVD player, that's an hour I won't get back. Once
I had realised what I was doing wrong I got it working fine even using the
terminal to install some libraries.
I tried to install HandBrake but the web site was pretty sniffy and it
seems I need first to install flatpak (?) to install HandBrake, new to me
but I will give it a try.
What has me stumped at the moment is I want to use the Linux machine from
a Windows laptop using RDP on the laptop and xrdp on the Linux box. I made
quite good progress to the extent I could connect (once I had realised I
had to log off the Linux box first) but there was no access to the menu.
It seems xrdp doesn't like 3D desktops. I have been going in circles this
morning installing xfce4 (which I think is 2D) but RDP just keeps dropping
out.
I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if there is a
distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard since it might be easier
to start from fresh?
Good learning process, haven't used a terminal since DOS 6.2 :-)
Many thanks.

Wait, what's a 3D desktop?

[Lew Pitcher]

[snip]

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if there is a
distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard since it might be easier
to start from fresh?

[sni]

Post by candycanearter07
Wait, what's a 3D desktop?

AFAICT, a "3d desktop" is a Window Manager or Desktop Manager that incorporates
or requires a compositor to function.

Standard X11 window managers (like fwm or blackbox, etc) and early desktop
managers (like enlightenment) do not need the compositing facilities offered
by OpenGL add-ons to X11 or the builtin compositor in Wayland. But, more
"modern" Desktop Managers (like Gnome and KDE and others that use the GTK+/Qt
toolkits) often depend on a compositor to provide their standard visual environment.

FWIW, if it uses a compositor, then its not likely to work well with RDP, and
not at all with networked/remote X11.

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by Lew Pitcher
[snip]

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if there is a
distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard since it might be easier
to start from fresh?

[sni]

Post by candycanearter07
Wait, what's a 3D desktop?

AFAICT, a "3d desktop" is a Window Manager or Desktop Manager that incorporates
or requires a compositor to function.
Standard X11 window managers (like fwm or blackbox, etc) and early desktop
managers (like enlightenment) do not need the compositing facilities offered
by OpenGL add-ons to X11 or the builtin compositor in Wayland. But, more
"modern" Desktop Managers (like Gnome and KDE and others that use the GTK+/Qt
toolkits) often depend on a compositor to provide their standard visual environment.
FWIW, if it uses a compositor, then its not likely to work well with RDP, and
not at all with networked/remote X11.

I will take your word for that :-)

It's certainly true that a 3d desktop won't play with RDP.

[dillinger]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Lew Pitcher
[snip]

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if there is a
distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard since it might be easier
to start from fresh?

[sni]

Post by candycanearter07
Wait, what's a 3D desktop?

AFAICT, a "3d desktop" is a Window Manager or Desktop Manager that incorporates
or requires a compositor to function.
Standard X11 window managers (like fwm or blackbox, etc) and early desktop
managers (like enlightenment) do not need the compositing facilities offered
by OpenGL add-ons to X11 or the builtin compositor in Wayland. But, more
"modern" Desktop Managers (like Gnome and KDE and others that use the GTK+/Qt
toolkits) often depend on a compositor to provide their standard visual environment.
FWIW, if it uses a compositor, then its not likely to work well with RDP, and
not at all with networked/remote X11.

I will take your word for that :-)
It's certainly true that a 3d desktop won't play with RDP.

You can try TeamViewer, it works here with KDE neon & Windows 10, both ways.
Wayland support is experimental but it works.

[candycanearter07]

Post by Lew Pitcher
[snip]

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if there is a
distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard since it might be easier
to start from fresh?

[sni]

Post by candycanearter07
Wait, what's a 3D desktop?

AFAICT, a "3d desktop" is a Window Manager or Desktop Manager that incorporates
or requires a compositor to function.
Standard X11 window managers (like fwm or blackbox, etc) and early desktop
managers (like enlightenment) do not need the compositing facilities offered
by OpenGL add-ons to X11 or the builtin compositor in Wayland. But, more
"modern" Desktop Managers (like Gnome and KDE and others that use the GTK+/Qt
toolkits) often depend on a compositor to provide their standard visual environment.
FWIW, if it uses a compositor, then its not likely to work well with RDP, and
not at all with networked/remote X11.

Oh.. I was hoping it would be some futuristic design.

[David W. Hodgins]

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am trying (again) to get myself going with Linux on a spare PC (Xeon
CPU) and have made good progress so far with Ubuntu-MATE.
I discovered yesterday that no matter how hard you try a Blu Ray disc
won't play in a standard DVD player, that's an hour I won't get back. Once
I had realised what I was doing wrong I got it working fine even using the
terminal to install some libraries.
I tried to install HandBrake but the web site was pretty sniffy and it
seems I need first to install flatpak (?) to install HandBrake, new to me
but I will give it a try.
What has me stumped at the moment is I want to use the Linux machine from
a Windows laptop using RDP on the laptop and xrdp on the Linux box. I made
quite good progress to the extent I could connect (once I had realised I
had to log off the Linux box first) but there was no access to the menu.
It seems xrdp doesn't like 3D desktops. I have been going in circles this
morning installing xfce4 (which I think is 2D) but RDP just keeps dropping
out.
I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if there is a
distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard since it might be easier
to start from fresh?
Good learning process, haven't used a terminal since DOS 6.2 :-)
Many thanks.

Wait, what's a 3D desktop?

It's a desktop environment that supports 3d effects, usually using something
like Compiz Fusion.
https://compiz-fusion.org/

I always disable it during my installations, as it's just eye candy that distracts
from whatever I'm working on, by uninstalling the compiz package. Other then
stopping the annoying graphics, uninstalling it has no other impacts on my usage.

# urpmq -i compiz
Name : compiz
Epoch : 1
Version : 0.8.18
Release : 4.mga9
Group : System/X11
Size : 7376912 Architecture: x86_64
Source RPM : compiz-0.8.18-4.mga9.src.rpm
URL : https://github.com/compiz-reloaded/compiz
Summary : OpenGL composite manager for Xgl and AIGLX
Description :
Compiz is an OpenGL compositing manager, which means that it enhances
the overall user interaction by adding fancy effects to your windows,
from drop shadows to desktop effects like the Desktop Cube or the Expo view.

Compiz can also be a window manager, which means that it is the software
between you and your desktop apps. It enables you to move or resize windows,
to switch workspaces, to switch windows easily (using alt-tab or so), and so on.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

[Paul]

Post by candycanearter07
Wait, what's a 3D desktop?

To some extent, this started with the introduction of Compiz.

On Knoppix, Compiz started out as a series of garish animations
for desktop activities.

But Compiz also became part of the switch to compositing
and caching window renders, and doing Z-axis priority to
establish the current desktop view.

All platforms now have compositing. Apple had it. Windows
changed from Expose Events to Compositing. And Linux got it
too.

It was just easier to do some of these things in OpenGL
(like the strange Compiz animations that actually involved transforms
as part of their execution).

Things like Libreoffice use OpenGL "even when they don't need to".
LibreOffice uses OpenGL on both Linux and Windows (it does not use
DirectX or have the software for DirectX). So if a transport
layer in the graphics stack was not "prepared for 3D", then
perhaps a Linux LibreOffice window would remain blank in RDP Windows.

Terminal Server in Windows, has extensive graphics capability.
WSL/WSLg in Windows, in a matter of a couple weeks, they
tuned a Linux VM, made the graphics travel through Terminal
Server (potentially, RDP), and make it responsive and
glitch free in a short time. The path your graphics take
in that environment, that's a *huge* stack.

On a daily basis, on Windows 11, I run a Linux version of
Firefox on the same desktop. In the Task Bar, is a Firefox
icon... with a tiny Penguin drawn in the lower right corner
of the icon. That's my Linux Firefox. It means I can run a
crusty older Firefox in Windows (to annoy advertisers), and
a "compatible supported" Firefox, using WSL/WSLg. And the
graphics burble up through a Terminal Services stack of some
sort.

[Picture] Some penguins on the Task Bar, catching the sun

Loading Image...

*******

Any time the term "RDP" comes up, you just know there
will be misery and hair loss :-) Part of the problem with the
general topic area, is different SKUs of Windows may have
different capabilities.

On the Linux side, you start with a review of an Arch article,
to get the general gist of the thing.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/xrdp

"3.3 Graphical acceleration

For Xorg sessions, you can enable OpenGL and Vulkan graphical acceleration
by installing xorgxrdp-glamor for Intel and AMD GPUs and xorgxrdp-nvidia
for Nvidia GPUs."

And maybe in that suggestion, you would have used Driver Manager to
switch from Nouveau to NVidia driver, if that had not been done already.
When they "name" GPUs that way, you probably want to start with the
right graphics base, so the other shit bolts on top. When it comes time
to Upgrade your Mint to the next version, you might switch the driver
back to Nouveau temporarily (if that's how it arrived when installed)
-- and when you're doing the Upgrade, you'll be doing
that while seated in front of that PC. No doing that over RDP :-(

You can't have fun, unless it's complicated. Or so I've heard.

Paul

[Bud Frede]

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Jeff Gaines
What has me stumped at the moment is I want to use the Linux machine from
a Windows laptop using RDP on the laptop and xrdp on the Linux box. I made
quite good progress to the extent I could connect (once I had realised I
had to log off the Linux box first) but there was no access to the menu.
It seems xrdp doesn't like 3D desktops. I have been going in circles this
morning installing xfce4 (which I think is 2D) but RDP just keeps dropping
out.
I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if there is a
distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard since it might be easier
to start from fresh?
Good learning process, haven't used a terminal since DOS 6.2 :-)
Many thanks.

Wait, what's a 3D desktop?

I immediately thought of Sun's Project Looking Glass. :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Looking_Glass

[Adman Online]

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am trying (again) to get myself going with Linux on a spare PC (Xeon
CPU) and have made good progress so far with Ubuntu-MATE.
I discovered yesterday that no matter how hard you try a Blu Ray disc
won't play in a standard DVD player, that's an hour I won't get back.
Once I had realised what I was doing wrong I got it working fine even
using the terminal to install some libraries.
I tried to install HandBrake but the web site was pretty sniffy and it
seems I need first to install flatpak (?) to install HandBrake, new to
me but I will give it a try.
What has me stumped at the moment is I want to use the Linux machine
from a Windows laptop using RDP on the laptop and xrdp on the Linux box.
I made quite good progress to the extent I could connect (once I had
realised I had to log off the Linux box first) but there was no access
to the menu. It seems xrdp doesn't like 3D desktops. I have been going
in circles this morning installing xfce4 (which I think is 2D) but RDP
just keeps dropping out.
I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if there is a
distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard since it might be easier
to start from fresh?
Good learning process, haven't used a terminal since DOS 6.2 :-)
Many thanks.

It's been a while since I've used it, but I think MATE desktop isn't 3D,
though it does use Compiz. Really, though, for lightweight usage, I'd
recommend anything you can install LXDE/LXQt/XFCE onto. MATE and Trinity
(while I'm fairly certain they make little-to-no use of 3D) are a bit on
the heavier-side for a lightweight usage scenario in my opinion, but those
are just my suggestions.

[candycanearter07]

Post by Adman Online

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am trying (again) to get myself going with Linux on a spare PC (Xeon
CPU) and have made good progress so far with Ubuntu-MATE.
I discovered yesterday that no matter how hard you try a Blu Ray disc
won't play in a standard DVD player, that's an hour I won't get back.
Once I had realised what I was doing wrong I got it working fine even
using the terminal to install some libraries.
I tried to install HandBrake but the web site was pretty sniffy and it
seems I need first to install flatpak (?) to install HandBrake, new to
me but I will give it a try.
What has me stumped at the moment is I want to use the Linux machine
from a Windows laptop using RDP on the laptop and xrdp on the Linux box.
I made quite good progress to the extent I could connect (once I had
realised I had to log off the Linux box first) but there was no access
to the menu. It seems xrdp doesn't like 3D desktops. I have been going
in circles this morning installing xfce4 (which I think is 2D) but RDP
just keeps dropping out.
I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if there is a
distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard since it might be easier
to start from fresh?
Good learning process, haven't used a terminal since DOS 6.2 :-)
Many thanks.

It's been a while since I've used it, but I think MATE desktop isn't 3D,
though it does use Compiz. Really, though, for lightweight usage, I'd
recommend anything you can install LXDE/LXQt/XFCE onto. MATE and Trinity
(while I'm fairly certain they make little-to-no use of 3D) are a bit on
the heavier-side for a lightweight usage scenario in my opinion, but those
are just my suggestions.

XFCE4 is /fantastic/.

[Bud Frede]

Post by Adman Online

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am trying (again) to get myself going with Linux on a spare PC (Xeon
CPU) and have made good progress so far with Ubuntu-MATE.
I discovered yesterday that no matter how hard you try a Blu Ray disc
won't play in a standard DVD player, that's an hour I won't get back.
Once I had realised what I was doing wrong I got it working fine even
using the terminal to install some libraries.
I tried to install HandBrake but the web site was pretty sniffy and it
seems I need first to install flatpak (?) to install HandBrake, new to
me but I will give it a try.
What has me stumped at the moment is I want to use the Linux machine
from a Windows laptop using RDP on the laptop and xrdp on the Linux box.
I made quite good progress to the extent I could connect (once I had
realised I had to log off the Linux box first) but there was no access
to the menu. It seems xrdp doesn't like 3D desktops. I have been going
in circles this morning installing xfce4 (which I think is 2D) but RDP
just keeps dropping out.
I am taking a breather at the moment and wanted to ask if there is a
distro that comes with a 2D desktop as standard since it might be easier
to start from fresh?
Good learning process, haven't used a terminal since DOS 6.2 :-)
Many thanks.

It's been a while since I've used it, but I think MATE desktop isn't 3D,
though it does use Compiz. Really, though, for lightweight usage, I'd
recommend anything you can install LXDE/LXQt/XFCE onto. MATE and Trinity
(while I'm fairly certain they make little-to-no use of 3D) are a bit on
the heavier-side for a lightweight usage scenario in my opinion, but those
are just my suggestions.

After Ubuntu dropped Gnome2 as a desktop, I tried LXDE and XFCE. LXDE
did seem to use less resources, but it also had fewer features. XFCE was
perhaps a bit lighter than Gnome2, but I was never sure if it was a
really significant difference.

If you really want lightweight, you should probably avoid desktop
environments and just pick a window manager that you like.

I've been using MATE (which is basically a fork of Gnome2) for a number
of years on Linux Mint and I'm quite pleased with it. It does what I
need and doesn't get in my way.

LXDE and XFCE would be usable alternatives for me, but I'm good with
where I'm at and don't feel any need to move back to them from MATE.

What I usually recommend for new Linux users is that they pick a distro
and desktop environment that their friends use, or at least know people
that use. Having some sort of support system is IMO more important than
the specific software you start using.

As you get more experienced, you may want to re-evaluate things and make
other choices, but at least you'll be doing that with some knowledge and
experience, rather than just kind of picking some distro at random. :-)