Discussion:
An audio mystery: Bravo-X, USB Audio, WTF?
(too old to reply)
Yrrah
2020-04-23 14:35:01 UTC
Permalink
x-posted: alt.os.linux.mint,alt.os.linux

(Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon)

I've been using an external USB DAC amplifier for about three years.
It didn't require separate drivers and I assume it used a kernel USB
audio driver. The device was always shown with its correct (brand)
name in the Linux Mint Sound Settings and the settings of the media
players I use. Now it's gone. Something called Bravo-X USB Audio has
appeared instead. Thats a proprietary Chinese piece of software. I
don't recall installing it, like to get rid of it again and get back
to what was used before it appeared.

'~$ cat /proc/asound/cards' shows:

2 [Audio ]: USB-Audio - Bravo-X USB Audio
SAVITECH Bravo-X USB Audio at
usb-0000:01:00.0-10, full speed

Apparently there is an Asus mainboard connection:
https://www.linux-hardware.org/index.php?id=usb:262a-9023

But how and why did it replace the Linux USB audio driver?
Who can explain this mystery? Who know s a remedy?

Yrrah
Mike Easter
2020-04-23 15:38:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yrrah
external USB DAC amplifier
See what lsusb says.

Then you can use add'l lsusb commands to get more details. eg if I use
lsusb and find a device at a bus # and a device (where # are small
integers replaced by b & d here)

Bus 00b Device 00d

then the syntax for getting verbose info about that device is

lsusb -v -s b:d

inxi can also give usb info w/ its --usb option, but I don't know the
synatx for limiting the output of a specific device for inxi. You get
all inxi can give for all of them w/

inxi -xxx --usb
--
Mike Easter
Yrrah
2020-04-23 15:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Mike Easter <***@ster.invalid>:

(audio mystery: Bravo-X
USB Audio)
Post by Mike Easter
Post by Yrrah
external USB DAC amplifier
See what lsusb says.
No USB audio device shown.
Post by Mike Easter
inxi can also give usb info w/ its --usb option, but I don't know the
synatx for limiting the output of a specific device for inxi. You get
all inxi can give for all of them w/
inxi -xxx --usb
inxi -xxx --usb

Audacious, SMPlayer or VLC playing a media file:
...
Device-2: 1-10:21 info: N/A type: HID,Audio driver:
hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid
....
No media player active:
Device-2: 1-10:21 info: N/A type: HID,Audio


Yrrah
Mike Easter
2020-04-23 16:26:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Easter
Mike Easter
(audio mystery: Bravo-X
USB Audio)
Post by Mike Easter
Post by Yrrah
external USB DAC amplifier
See what lsusb says.
No USB audio device shown.
I think that is a problem that needs to be solved. I found an old
discussion in which the guru provided a script to disengage the USB via
usbhid and then re-engaging after replugging the DAC.

The (ancient, 6 y/o) sequence he used is described here:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/411618/usb-dac-in-13-04-does-not-appear-in-settings-or-lsusb
USB DAC in 13.04 does not appear in Settings or lsusb

There's no evidence of [solved] there.

This sounds something like a wrong driver for a wifi card problem; like
it needs the usb equivalent of a modprobe remove and replace.

Some usb devices are aided by remove/replace but I don"t think it will
be that easy to get rid of one usb setting for another>
--
Mike Easter
Paul
2020-04-23 16:58:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Easter
Post by Mike Easter
Mike Easter
(audio mystery: Bravo-X
USB Audio)
Post by Mike Easter
Post by Yrrah
external USB DAC amplifier
See what lsusb says.
No USB audio device shown.
I think that is a problem that needs to be solved. I found an old
discussion in which the guru provided a script to disengage the USB via
usbhid and then re-engaging after replugging the DAC.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/411618/usb-dac-in-13-04-does-not-appear-in-settings-or-lsusb
USB DAC in 13.04 does not appear in Settings or lsusb
There's no evidence of [solved] there.
This sounds something like a wrong driver for a wifi card problem; like
it needs the usb equivalent of a modprobe remove and replace.
Some usb devices are aided by remove/replace but I don"t think it will
be that easy to get rid of one usb setting for another>
Or maybe to have something blacklisted, so the rogue
driver doesn't load.

Or for that matter, perhaps something has edited the
blacklist, preventing the originally used driver from
loading ?

Paul
Yrrah
2020-04-23 17:09:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Easter
Post by Yrrah
(audio mystery: Bravo-X
USB Audio)
Post by Mike Easter
Post by Yrrah
external USB DAC amplifier
See what lsusb says.
No USB audio device shown.
I think that is a problem that needs to be solved. I found an old
discussion in which the guru provided a script to disengage the USB via
usbhid and then re-engaging after replugging the DAC.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/411618/usb-dac-in-13-04-does-not-appear-in-settings-or-lsusb
USB DAC in 13.04 does not appear in Settings or lsusb
~$ dmesg | tail:

[12070.068157] usb 1-10: config 1 has an invalid interface number: 3
but max is 2
[12070.068159] usb 1-10: config 1 has an invalid interface number: 3
but max is 2
[12070.068161] usb 1-10: config 1 has an invalid interface number: 3
but max is 2
[12070.068163] usb 1-10: config 1 has no interface number 2
[12070.089118] usb 1-10: New USB device found, idVendor=262a,
idProduct=9023, bcdDevice= 0.01
[12070.089122] usb 1-10: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2,
SerialNumber=0
[12070.089125] usb 1-10: Product: Bravo-X USB Audio
[12070.089127] usb 1-10: Manufacturer: SAVITECH
[12070.104154] input: SAVITECH Bravo-X USB Audio as
/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:01.3/0000:01:00.0/usb1/1-10/1-10:1.0/0003:262A:9023.001E/input/input38
[12070.162618] hid-generic 0003:262A:9023.001E: input,hidraw3: USB HID
v1.00 Device [SAVITECH Bravo-X USB Audio] on
usb-0000:01:00.0-10/input0

I also tried dmesg without "| tail". It gives too much info for
copying and pasting here. But it does show the the USB audio device
by its correct name plus some error messages. lt looks like it may
have something to do with the "invalid interface number". However, I
still don't know where this Bravo-X USB Audio stuff comes from.
I'll come back to it later, but I have to go now.

Must dash.
Thanks for the input.

Yrrah
Mike Easter
2020-04-24 17:26:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yrrah
I've been using an external USB DAC amplifier for about three years.
It didn't require separate drivers and I assume it used a kernel USB
audio driver. The device was always shown with its correct (brand)
name in the Linux Mint Sound Settings and the settings of the media
players I use.
What is the correct brand name and modelno of this DAC?
--
Mike Easter
Yrrah
2020-05-01 15:27:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Easter
Post by Yrrah
I've been using an external USB DAC amplifier for about three years.
It didn't require separate drivers and I assume it used a kernel USB
audio driver. The device was always shown with its correct (brand)
name in the Linux Mint Sound Settings and the settings of the media
players I use.
What is the correct brand name and modelno of this DAC?
Sorry about the late reply. A new mystery: the old situation has
reappeared. Then correct name of the device is shown in LM's Sound
Settings again.

~$ dmesg | tail
[ 736.147751] usb 1-10: config 1 has an invalid interface number: 3
but max is 2
[ 736.147755] usb 1-10: config 1 has an invalid interface number: 3
but max is 2
[ 736.147757] usb 1-10: config 1 has an invalid interface number: 3
but max is 2
[ 736.147759] usb 1-10: config 1 has no interface number 2
[ 736.180754] usb 1-10: New USB device found, idVendor=154e,
idProduct=1004, bcdDevice= 0.01
[ 736.180757] usb 1-10: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2,
SerialNumber=0
[ 736.180760] usb 1-10: Product: CEOL carino
[ 736.180762] usb 1-10: Manufacturer: Denon
[ 736.211949] input: Denon CEOL carino as
/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:01.3/0000:01:00.0/usb1/1-10/1-10:1.0/0003:154E:1004.0006/input/input14
[ 736.271904] hid-generic 0003:154E:1004.0006: input,hidraw3: USB HID
v1.00 Device [Denon CEOL carino] on usb-0000:01:00.0-10/input0


It's the Denon device.


Thanks everyone for the input. I'd still like to knpw where the
Savitch Bravo driver, or whaever it is, came from.

Yrrah
Paul
2020-05-01 17:39:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yrrah
Post by Mike Easter
Post by Yrrah
I've been using an external USB DAC amplifier for about three years.
It didn't require separate drivers and I assume it used a kernel USB
audio driver. The device was always shown with its correct (brand)
name in the Linux Mint Sound Settings and the settings of the media
players I use.
What is the correct brand name and modelno of this DAC?
Sorry about the late reply. A new mystery: the old situation has
reappeared. Then correct name of the device is shown in LM's Sound
Settings again.
~$ dmesg | tail
[ 736.147751] usb 1-10: config 1 has an invalid interface number: 3
but max is 2
[ 736.147755] usb 1-10: config 1 has an invalid interface number: 3
but max is 2
[ 736.147757] usb 1-10: config 1 has an invalid interface number: 3
but max is 2
[ 736.147759] usb 1-10: config 1 has no interface number 2
[ 736.180754] usb 1-10: New USB device found, idVendor=154e,
idProduct=1004, bcdDevice= 0.01
[ 736.180757] usb 1-10: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2,
SerialNumber=0
[ 736.180760] usb 1-10: Product: CEOL carino
[ 736.180762] usb 1-10: Manufacturer: Denon
[ 736.211949] input: Denon CEOL carino as
/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:01.3/0000:01:00.0/usb1/1-10/1-10:1.0/0003:154E:1004.0006/input/input14
[ 736.271904] hid-generic 0003:154E:1004.0006: input,hidraw3: USB HID
v1.00 Device [Denon CEOL carino] on usb-0000:01:00.0-10/input0
It's the Denon device.
Thanks everyone for the input. I'd still like to knpw where the
Savitch Bravo driver, or whaever it is, came from.
Yrrah
You can see here, that the three devices in this code,
are missing from usb.ids.

https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/5841541/

Feb. 17, 2015

sound/usb/quirks.c

case USB_ID(0x154e, 0x1003): /* Denon DA-300USB */
case USB_ID(0x154e, 0x3005): /* Marantz HD-DAC1 */
case USB_ID(0x154e, 0x3006): /* Marantz SA-14S1 */

This is a later version of the quirks.c file.

https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/sound/usb/quirks.c

case USB_ID(0x154e, 0x1003): /* Denon DA-300USB */
case USB_ID(0x154e, 0x3005): /* Marantz HD-DAC1 */
case USB_ID(0x154e, 0x3006): /* Marantz SA-14S1 */
case USB_ID(0x1852, 0x5065): /* Luxman DA-06 */
case USB_ID(0x0644, 0x8043): /* TEAC UD-501/UD-501V2/UD-503/NT-503 */
case USB_ID(0x0644, 0x8044): /* Esoteric D-05X */
case USB_ID(0x0644, 0x804a): /* TEAC UD-301 */

Device 1004 isn't in there, so we still don't know what
similar devices exist that are using the same chip. The
quirks in the example above, hint that perhaps a chip
with "dynamic" ID is being used for those adapters,
and each company put their own tiny EEPROM inside
the adapter to brand it.

Why not start by turning the DAC over and getting the
Denon model number off it. Using this list, you may be
able to get the "chip numbers" which are inside it,
without having to open it with a screwdriver.

https://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/#D

There are no Savitch Bravo entries in there...

We need the chip numbers, to provide more breadcrumbs
to feed into Goggle.

Paul
Yrrah
2020-05-03 12:27:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Why not start by turning the DAC over and getting the
Denon model number off it. Using this list, you may be
able to get the "chip numbers" which are inside it,
without having to open it with a screwdriver.
https://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/#D
The device is not in that list.
Post by Paul
There are no Savitch Bravo entries in there...
We need the chip numbers, to provide more breadcrumbs
to feed into Goggle.
It's this dac/amp (model number PMA-N2):
<https://www.denon.com.hk/en-hk/shop/denonapac-bluetoothaudiosystems_ap/ceolcarinopman2scn2_ap>

Denon doesn't provide any info as to the DAC used.

Time to move on to the next problem...;-)


Yrrah
Yrrah
2020-05-03 15:14:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yrrah
Post by Paul
Why not start by turning the DAC over and getting the
Denon model number off it. Using this list, you may be
able to get the "chip numbers" which are inside it,
without having to open it with a screwdriver.
https://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/#D
The device is not in that list.
Post by Paul
There are no Savitch Bravo entries in there...
We need the chip numbers, to provide more breadcrumbs
to feed into Goggle.
<https://www.denon.com.hk/en-hk/shop/denonapac-bluetoothaudiosystems_ap/ceolcarinopman2scn2_ap>
Denon doesn't provide any info as to the DAC used.
F*ck! It's back to square one. The Bravo-X USB Audio mystery has
returned. I'm getting worried and desparate now.


Yrrah
Paul
2020-05-03 18:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yrrah
Post by Yrrah
Post by Paul
Why not start by turning the DAC over and getting the
Denon model number off it. Using this list, you may be
able to get the "chip numbers" which are inside it,
without having to open it with a screwdriver.
https://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/#D
The device is not in that list.
Post by Paul
There are no Savitch Bravo entries in there...
We need the chip numbers, to provide more breadcrumbs
to feed into Goggle.
<https://www.denon.com.hk/en-hk/shop/denonapac-bluetoothaudiosystems_ap/ceolcarinopman2scn2_ap>
Denon doesn't provide any info as to the DAC used.
F*ck! It's back to square one. The Bravo-X USB Audio mystery has
returned. I'm getting worried and desparate now.
Yrrah
It's more than a DAC.

http://manuals.denon.com/PMAN2/EU/EN/WBSPSYgaagxkvv.php

This is as close to internal photos as I could find.

https://macandegg.de/2015/05/review-denon-ceol-carino-sc-n2-bluetooth-anlage-im-test/

*******

The Bravo-X appears to be a previous generation of Savitech USB DAC.

https://linux-hardware.org/index.php?id=usb:262a-9023

ID USB 262a:9023
Class 03-00-00
Type sound
Vendor SAVITECH
Name Bravo-X USB Audio

This is their current product line. There's no archive.org capture
of this site, so we can't go back in time to see the 9023.

https://www.savitech.co/copy-of-products

Part Number Datasheet Audio I/O Voltage PCM DSD S/PDIF Package
SA9123 2 In/ 2 Out UAC 2.0 / High Speed 1.6V~3.3V 24 bit / 192 KHz - 1 Out TQFP-64
SA9127 2 In/ 2 Out UAC 2.0 / High Speed 1.6V~3.3V 32 bit / 384 KHz DSD256 1 Out QFN-48
SA9137 2 In/ 2 Out UAC 2.0 / High Speed 1.6V~3.3V 32 bit / 384 KHz DSD256 1 Out QFN-48
SA9227A 2 In/ 2 Out UAC 2.0 / High Speed 1.6V~3.3V 32 bit / 384 KHz DSD256 1 Out TQFP-64
SA9302L 2 In/ 2 Out UAC 2.0 / High Speed 1.6V~3.3V 32 bit / 384 KHz DSD256 1 Out CSP-49
SA0502 2 In/ 2 Out UAC 2.0 / High Speed 1.6V~3.3V 24 bit / 192 KHz - 1 Out CSP-49

"The Savitech/Bravo SA9023 USB - I2S interface device
has a slave and a master option (I2S interface clocking).

A second question is has anyone knowledge of a USB Audio
descriptor generator software for the SA9023 or TE7022L EEPROM?
"

Which means, perhaps, the 9023 is a previous generation device
(not listed currently in the Savitech catalog) that drove
external DAC chips (like Wolfson I2S perhaps).

Then the question would be, how/why is that hijacking
the Denon ?

Is it a firmware hijack ? The 9023 sounds "pretty dumb" so far.

There's an example here of a Savitech not doing the right
thing. One suggestion is blacklisting. Another /etc/modprobe.d/usbdac.conf
(given the thread is from 2014, the method could have changed).

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=222301

Paul
dyrmak
2020-05-06 20:08:47 UTC
Permalink
En 25 lignes Yrrah a écrit
Post by Yrrah
Post by Yrrah
Post by Paul
Why not start by turning the DAC over and getting the
Denon model number off it. Using this list, you may be
able to get the "chip numbers" which are inside it,
without having to open it with a screwdriver.
https://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/#D
The device is not in that list.
Post by Paul
There are no Savitch Bravo entries in there...
We need the chip numbers, to provide more breadcrumbs
to feed into Goggle.
<https://www.denon.com.hk/en-hk/shop/denonapac-bluetoothaudiosystems_ap/ceolcarinopman2scn2_ap>
Denon doesn't provide any info as to the DAC used.
F*ck! It's back to square one. The Bravo-X USB Audio mystery has
returned. I'm getting worried and desparate now.
Yrrah
In the meantime, did you notice a kernel update ?

It is my belief that this change can not happen spontaneously....


dyrmak
--
¿ Cómo era aquello del rayo verde ?
++++ --- ++++
Linux operating system
++++ --- ++++
Yrrah
2020-05-08 12:02:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by dyrmak
Post by Yrrah
Post by Yrrah
<https://www.denon.com.hk/en-hk/shop/denonapac-bluetoothaudiosystems_ap/ceolcarinopman2scn2_ap>
Denon doesn't provide any info as to the DAC used.
F*ck! It's back to square one. The Bravo-X USB Audio mystery has
returned. I'm getting worried and desparate now.
In the meantime, did you notice a kernel update ?
Possibly. Can't remember.
Post by dyrmak
It is my belief that this change can not happen spontaneously....
Are you suggesting that the Bravo-X USB Audio drive may be a kernel
component? In that case it should be documented somewhere.

Yrrah
D***@decadence.org
2020-05-10 01:54:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yrrah
Post by dyrmak
Post by Yrrah
Post by Yrrah
<https://www.denon.com.hk/en-hk/shop/denonapac-bluetoothaudiosy
stems_ap/ceolcarinopman2scn2_ap>
Denon doesn't provide any info as to the DAC used.
F*ck! It's back to square one. The Bravo-X USB Audio mystery
has returned. I'm getting worried and desparate now.
In the meantime, did you notice a kernel update ?
Possibly. Can't remember.
Post by dyrmak
It is my belief that this change can not happen
spontaneously....
Are you suggesting that the Bravo-X USB Audio drive may be a
kernel component? In that case it should be documented somewhere.
Yrrah
See if it works under BSD hehehehe...

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